the debt ceiling continues to go up and the overall debt. they are very concerned about all of those things. lori: do you think washington has the best interests of small business at heart? >> well, i hope so. the unfortunate part is we are seeing it in the administration. it continues to attack small business. washington has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. we hear about this every single week. lori: you point out that many small businesses do not have lawyers or lobbyists that focus on this. the list goes on and on. that is a serious problem. a serious disadvantage for them, correct? >> exactly. they do not have the resources. that is one of the reasons why we are trying to provide the voice for small businesses. we need to be the advocate for small businesses here in washington. lori: you look at our ballooning national debt in the battle over the current deficit. what is the best outcome? >> that would be for the federal government to reduce spending. that is just all there is to it. lori: where exactly? i have to interrupt you